Geographical tagging and decolonisation

Continuing the discussion from Mapping the music infrastructure in Aotearoa:

My suggestion would be to make both tags 1st class citizens in the interface, hooked to the same underlying discovery mechanisms, and let artists choose for themselves how to identify. If that’s tricky for some reason, feel free to go into detail on why, and I’ll see if I can suggest a workaround.

But also, the best person to ask is not me (not that you did), but the kiwi artists using Mirlo. If possible, as a group, rather than 1 by 1. It might be fun for them all to know they’re not the only flightless bird on the platform.

Good instinct! :wink: Decolonisation politics is a powder keg in Aotearoa at the moment, and whether the country ought to be called “Aotearoa” or “New Zealand” is one of many increasingly contentious issues. Some people still use them interchangeably, others use one or the other, and get huffy with people using the “wrong” one. As with gendered pronouns, I try to respect people’s self-identification and avoid language policing, although I will challenge any misapprehensions or bigotry I see lurking beneath people’s comments.

Personally, I tend to use “New Zealand” to refer only to the state, the courts, local councils, domestic corporate media, and other institutions set up by European colonists. Also the white bread culture and white supremacist attitudes that go with them. Whether that’s the open bigotry of knuckle-dragging boneheads, or the respectable assimilationism of most of our major current political parties (including Labour BTW).

If I’m talking about the whenua (land), tangata (peoples), or anything else that isn’t itself a product of colonisation - including the country as a totality - I’ll say Aotearoa. But I’m aware that’s contentious even within iwi Māori (indigenous nations). Aotearoa was a name used mainly by iwi in Te Ika a Maui (north island). Iwi in the island I grew up on generally considered themselves to be a separate country, known as Te Wai Pounamu. The history here is complicated further by the fact that the dominant iwi in Te Wai Pounamu came south from Te Ika Maui in the early 17th century, and whether they assimilated the pre-existing populations, or were assimilated by them, depends somewhat on whose oral history you’re listening to.

EDIT 2: I made a major factual mistake, saying “19th century” instead of 17th. I’ve corrected this and linked the claim to a history page on the website of the iwi in question.

EDIT: The historical documents that created our current cultural and institutional arrangements even use different names; He Whakaputanga uses “Nu Tireni”, while Te Tiriti o Waitangi uses “Nu Tirani” (both transliterations of “New Zealand”). Neither uses ‘Aotearoa’, nor ‘New Zealand’, at least not in the untranslated Te Reo Māori versions signed by the rangatira (usually translated as ‘chiefs’, but in this context more like ‘ambassadors’).

Point being, place names are claims, histories, and statements of identity. You’re very wise to tread lightly around issues of geographical nomenclature.

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@strypey we’re on some kind wavelength, I also suggested each being a “first-class location” in a conversation about this internally. I imagined that they’d be completely independent, such that filtering by one doesn’t show results from the other, due to the identity reasons mentioned. I’m asking you, but also not asking you :winking_face_with_tongue:

Thanks for sharing your perspective and those resources.

I’m not taking this as a request for suggestions, but I will take it as permission to give an opinion :wink:

From the POV of a music fan searching for music, I’d like to be able to search for either “Aotearoa” or “New Zealand” or “nz”, and see all music from bands who identify with my country. I’m actually trying to do this right now, looking for kiwi music to feature on a radio interview I’m doing for NZ Music Month. Neither “Aotearoa” or “New Zealand” deliver anything at all in my browser (LibreWolf on Fedora Mate), and “nz” delivers nothing relevant AFAICT.

EDIT: Searching “Aotearoa” on @bandwagon, in contrast, delivers a bunch of artists, albums, tracks, events, and news posts, some of which I recognise as kiwi artists (although some are almost definitely not). Searching “New Zealand” delivers a bunch of tracks and 1 news post, again a mix of kiwi and not.

It would be good to ask the musicians about this, and maybe provide an opt-out if needed, but I doubt any of them are keen to make their music any harder to discover :grin: I suspect what would annoy them is if they added the “Aotearoa” tag to their profile and releases, then came back and saw a “New Zealand” tag in its place (or even alongside it) without their say-so. Or vice-versa.

BTW While I’m giving @mirlo feedback, the page layout doesn’t clearly distinguish between content that’s part of an artist profile or release notes, and the footer that contains info about Mirlo itself. Some sort of dividing line above the footer, or visual container around it, might make that clearer.

@kidlightbulbs along similar lines, it would be great if Unstream could ingest geographical tags from the platforms it searches, and display a location under the artist name in search results. I just used it to search for a kiwi band called Revulva. This is an obvious visual pun, so of course there are multiple artists with variations of that name, and Unstream duly serves up 4 of them. If each had a location, I could immediately see which was the one I’m looking for.

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This is a great idea. I’m going to look into this.

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I found an easy way to add in location tags for Unstream search using my existing MusicBrainz API lookups, and hacked a way to get it with Bandcamp as a fallback. Deploying now :winking_face_with_tongue:

I still need to add in support for verified artist profiles, but it’s a start

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That’s amazing! Is there anything people maintaining music hosting software like @funkwhale (@petitminion), @bandwagon or @mirlo could do to take it easier for Unstream to geo-locate artists and tell them apart (where 2 or more acts from different places have the same name) when searching on services running their software?

I know @Funkwhale tracks MusicBrainz IDs - I’ve seen it in their documentation.

I didn’t know much about MusicBrainz when I was getting started. That, plus the funny name made me skip it for the time being.

It should be simple to add another ID into the metadata that artists can include with their albums. So if this would be useful to link music together across platforms, I’m happy to do it.

The big question to me is: how should I publish this so that it’s useful to apps like Unstream?

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As with re-using existing common protocols, I think it’s worth supporting data sources that already have a lot of buy-in from musicians, as long as it doesn’t force any kind of enshittification on you. MusicBrainz is one such data source, Discogs is another.

@kidlightbulbs?

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I wrote off Musicbrainz for a long time for the same reasons haha. But I also found that many smaller artists hadn’t heard of it, and didn’t want to go through the trouble of submitting their data to yet another service, so they didn’t want to.

For Unstream: as long as the format is easy to interpret, I’m pretty flexible. If there’s some simple REST or GraphQL API, or some basic search index I could ping with an artist name that also returned location metadata, that could work. I’m not as technical as you so I’m happy to adapt to whatever format is easiest for you to maintain.